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Interview with ClickGroove Music Store by Ollie Brooke

While Clickgroove.com is now a complete digital download store this has not always been the case, can you give us a breakdown about what prompted you to move from physical media to digital?

The management team at ClickGroove originally came from a vinyl background as we have both run record labels that put out vinyl and one of us has also run a record shop. It was whilst working within the physical market that we became drawn towards the more progressive digital side of music. This is where we saw the future going and we were excited at the prospect of being a part of it. We initially set up ClickGroove as an outlet that offered both physical and digital products, but we found that we really needed to focus on one or the other in order to be the best store that we could be. Therefore we went for the digital option and have never looked back. We still love vinyl of course and have treasured collections.

What are the advantages for you, as shop owners, in running a download store and what are the disadvantages, as compared with a physical shop?

There are many advantages presented by running a digital store as opposed to a physical shop. The obvious ones include the ability to work from smaller office spaces as we no longer have to hold physical stock. Obviously this reduces our rents, however, that is kind of counterbalanced by server space and maintenance, etc. Stock is also easier to manage via a digital store as you never run out of a release and it totally removes the concept of dead stock. This allows us to take more risks with our A & R process as we can take on a product that we may consider slightly risky (like an unknown artist) and not have to worry about selling the copies we purchased in order to recoup our expenditure. This makes for a much more interesting store that carries a wider range of music.

We can stay open for business all day every day too and we have unlimited listening posts. I think customers appreciate shopping in privacy in the comfort of their own home without being badgered or sneered at by up record shop employees and all the other niggling complaints that are synonymous with the record stores.

There is also the flexibility that it presents as we could effectively set up the offices in any location that we choose (within reason). You now don't necessarily have to be so London-centric in order to get the most upfront releases and we are not so limited to customers who live within travelling distance to the shop. It really has opened us up to the global market place. Obviously an online vinyl store has access to a global market, however, shipping costs and poor shipping networks can make this slightly restrictive when dealing with physical stock: this worry doesn't exist within the download market.

I could list many more advantages but it will turn into a big boring list - but trust me: we are in a very exciting sector of the industry that is growing and changing everyday - it feels good to be part of something like that and we all do genuinely enjoy the new challenges and opportunities that arise through this medium.

In terms of disadvantages, there are a few- such as having to rely on technology and the lack of industry standard practices that exist in this market. I also miss the banter and social side of working and visiting record shops. The Saturday buzz and the contacts that you can make in such a place are something that you don't quite get via a digital store - but with the growth of forums and myspace the disparity between the two stores is beginning to diminish. I still like to visit my local vinyl store, just to meet people in the flesh and see what is happening within the dance music community.

The digital revolution is a relatively new feature on the DJ horizon, at what point did it occur to you that this was much more than a minor quirk in the scene and how do you see it developing over the next 5 to 10 years?

In our experience we've done a lot of travelling and DJing across Europe . One point where it really hit home to me was at a gig in Hamburg and Phil Asher had turned up with literally a suitcase full of CD's, not as much vinyl as you'd expect. So when guys like this who have contributed so much to the scene over the years aren't playing off strictly vinyl then you definitely know there's a turning point. I think the vinyl vs digital debate has got a little weary and there are more important questions to be answered in the dance music scene. There's also quite some debate about laptop DJ's. And we're split on this. If a DJ just turns up and uses a laptop to make his job easier and then delivers a lazy set, then that's not good. But at the same time you can use it to create such a great set, add FX, really make something interesting in the mix. Things like this are definitely the way forward, and we see more and more DJ's and music fans turning to digital more and more.

For DJs, one of the main advantages is being able to listen to endless previews of tracks without the shop owner getting grumpy, what are the disadvantages, if any, to shopping online for a DJ?

I would say there are a few disadvantages: unless u have good computer monitors then you can never really get a feeling for how a track would sound on a system, whereas record stores tend to be able to bang out a track loud on request. Also, you can only listen to restricted preview - whereas in a vinyl store you can listen to the whole track if you choose - but that is only a minor gripe as the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.

The market in which you are in is relatively new and there is not yet a huge amount of competition, what are the most important ideals that you hope/think will see you hold onto your place in the market?

I think that the market is growing at a rapid pace and there are new market entrants coming in all the time. You will be surprised at the volume of competitors out there: the key is to establish your niche and stick to it! We offer a high quality music selection across the wide spectrum of genres we love, be it soulful house, disco, nu soul, broken beats, electro, dub. If its good music we like then we'd like to make it available. Some sites are very narrow in their focus, whilst other sites are too broad and just add music content to make up the numbers. At ClickGroove we like to keep a tight focus and push music that we care for. Many download sites have come and gone in the short space of time already - that is mainly because they tried to spread themselves to wide and didn't have a clear understanding of what their customers want and / or the identity of the site that they ran. I think over the next 12-24 months we'll see more sites come and go, we just hope it doesn't dilute the market. People think it's easy to run a good download store. We can assure you, its not, and ClickGroove has been a labour of love as much as anything else. We aren't here for the quick buck.

There seems to be 2 distinct types of MP3 shop, those that specialise in certain areas and those that try and cover as much ground as they can, you fall into the former category as far as I can tell, why do you believe this is the best route to take?

The famous phrase "jack of all trades master of none" comes into mind. By specialising within a niche you can remain on the cutting edge of a scene and enforce more stringent quality control practices. As we stressed in the answer above, we know our market and we know what our customers want - there simply isn't enough time in the day to do this with all genres, so we like to remain focused and ensure that we excel in our chosen field. Big sites can be daunting to ppl and whilst they may stock everything, separating the wheat from the chaff is often an arduous process. Our customers can come onto our site, find the stuff that they like and then from that maybe branch into new labels / artists they haven't heard before - but the fact that they have a reference point to work from is very important. It's a bit like choosing to shop in Blackmarket rather than HMV for your records - yes, HMV probably have a lot of the tracks you want, but sometimes it takes a specialist like Blackmarket to point you in the right direction.  

You are one of the only stores that offers an affiliate program yet it seems an obvious thing to do, how is this working for you and why don't you think many other stores have adopted the technique?

It's something that we thought long and hard about right from the beginning. It's important to spread the word throughout the community and we're happy to give people a slice of the pie for doing so. To be honest, although we have the system in place, it's probably something we could be making more of. There's just so many things to think about, so watch this space.

As connoisseurs and obvious fanatic when it comes to music you must be acutely aware of the potential demise of vinyl as a format and your part in exacting this demise, how do you sleep at night? (I mean this in a jocular manner of course, I don't use vinyl and never have!)

Haha, good question. For me vinyl still has its place and I hope it will survive. When we started ClickGroove we were a combi vinyl and digital outlet - however the benefits of going exclusively digital were very apparent for us and therefore we took the plunge. Vinyl encapsulates a lot of romantic notions that whilst quaint aren't necessarily relevant in today's market. We reacted to customer demand and rather than swim against the tide we went with it, safe in the knowledge that we could still maintain our ethical approach to selling good music as an independent retail outlet. Did the 12" vinyl retailers feel guilt when they usurped the 7inch producers? Of course not - it was hailed as progress, as is, I would argue the evolution of the digital format. Do I feel guilt? Not at all: if anything I feel proud that we have stood up against the music pirates and have tried to legitimise this format, if companies like us hadn't then there would still be no vinyl as labels would be getting so little income they wouldn't be able to afford to pay producers or manufacturing costs. Both formats can work together and I personally don't believe either is better than the other - it's just a case of personal preference (the balance of sound quality and convenience is dependent on the consumer and their situation).  

It seems that vast majority of labels have now gone digital yet there are a few that are holding out or are not fully embracing it, why do you think this is and do you think they see something that you do not?

Most labels will ultimately have to embrace digital if they want to release profitable records. If that's what customers want then they must fulfil this need or remain selling a release to a handful of vinyl collectors. They have a duty to their artists to ensure that they exploit a release so that it fulfils it maximum potential: I think realistically you have to cover the digital angle in order to do that. If you can afford to do both vinyl and digital then even better as that satisfies everyone. However, if you choose to go vinyl only then you must be prepared to accept that that track is probably already on all the p2p file sharing sites and that ppl who want a digital copy will get it illegally rather than pay for it. I can't say why some labels refuse to go digital - they must have their own reasons and I fully respect this. It is not for us to say what they should be doing with their catalogues. I would say however, that by choosing to ignore digital they are choosing to ignore a high percentage of their potential customer base. I think some labels think that the digital may cannibalise their vinyl sales, but when we ran the store selling both vinyl and downloads we found that customers either bought vinyl or downloads. There wasn't actually much crossover! One thing that definitely needs to be stressed; if its not good music it won't sell no matter what format it is. If its good, then the people will come (and hopefully buy!).

While you are based in the UK you must be aware that a lot of stuff that's released digitally is not licensed for global distribution, so for example, in Australia, a lot of tracks are not available because of the territorial licence, this seems pointless since the track is there to be downloaded legitimately or otherwise which may end up losing the record company a sale, what do you think of the whole territorial thing when it comes to the internet and downloading?

Territory restrictions are in place to ensure that all interested parties have control of distribution within their territories - this does mean that some territories will miss out on certain releases. This must be frustrating for ppl and I do sympathise. In a dream world the label with the Australian rights will make the track available on Australian sites at the same time as the other label releases in other territories - however this is not common in practice. I have noticed a lot more worldwide deals being struck now - this is partly the influence of digital distribution but also due to the shrinking of the market in general and consequently labels need to be able to sell in all potential territories in order to recoup. There are several sites out there who aren't respecting these territory restrictions, technically this is in breach of contract a lot of the time.

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